self-funded emperor, obama, assumed a new duty, gala vaunting around the country on our dime organizing and inciting labor riots rather than solving the fiscl cliff problem." we're going to put that up somewhere. another says, "congress should take a break and go home. every time they are in washington, we, the taxpayers, get screwed." tom says, "sounds like boehner is about to gi president obama the store. good-bye, america. not quite." that's all for us. thanksg with us. good night from new york. ♪ [bleep] >> you heard the lady in there. >> i ain't nobody. >> [inaudible] >> get out of my face. [bleep] back off. [bleep]

[inaudible conversations] neil: you've seen it, you wonder about it. unions unhinged, and the guy they unhinged here tonight. fox on top of unions doubling down and in michigan. their supporters far from correcting them try commending them. >> we're going to pass something that will undo a hundred years of labor relations, and there will be blood. there will be repercussion neil: so you think we have another wisconsin on our hands? what have i told you? this is not about right to work. this is looking more and more like right to whack. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto, and whether you're for the michigan governor trying to make his the 24th right o work state right now, consider this, they are not taking it down, and they will be damned if they get wisconsinized

right now. you remember scott alker no longer making it mandatory that public workers had to be why unions. he was recalled, but survived, and so did the efforts to dramatically limit collective bargaining in the state. unions are still smarting over that one and what went down in wisconsin. the hell they'll just let it happen again in michigan. it is their method of protests that are stirring more controversy than the protest itself. loud, bloodd, and violent. [inaudible conversations] [bleep] neil: now i want you to picture this. tea partyers acting up the same way that bunch, right, that old lady up front, would she act the

same way? hard to see. beating the critics. do you think the edia would ignore that as it did this? in a bit, the guy on the receiving end of the union wrath, but, first, the tea partyer asking where is all the mainstream media rest on this? where's the outrage over these goonish tactics? gina suspects if the tea party put on that displ, forget about it. you're right. if this is not a double standard, man, i don't know what is. >> i don't either, neil, and you watch this and the hypocrisy, and you hink, what is it going to take for the public to perceive the double standard here, exactly as you described it. if this had happened at a tea party rally or a gun owners of america rally or any kind of conservative rally, you and i both know, neil, it would hav been splashed against every television screen, every newspaper, worldwide, probably

internationally, and, yet, the mainstream media lays down for this. they got their lap dogs. it is what it is. neil: you know, i think consistency, just be fair to all. if you think that, you know, these protests when violence are bad, then make a point of saying they are violence no matter who agents up enacting them, but what worried me about that is say fox, zero coverage of it. zero. >> reporter: that's the scary part, neil, and i'm glad y'all are making this point. the tea party just took a bad hit in the last election. everybody saying, oh, this was the end of the tea party. you didn't hear the tea party out there saying, you know, we're going to have blood in the streets or hurt or punch or knock in nip's tent down, ad, yet, when one state, by their elected officials, by the way, decide that they are going to make some changes, you have this outrage by the union's threat of

violation, and what some refer to as terrorist activity. this is the definitive difference that i hope people are catching on to as really pertinent detail in what is the real difference between conservatives and status? yohave a perfect example of this. this is step one out of the play book as we know. neil: if you going to protest anywhere in the country, it's the great thing of the country. when you turn violence, you turn me off quickly. today, when the protesters in michigan had tape over their mouths to indite, in their appointment -- point of view, that they had no voice anymore and union representation at risk, that might have been a valid point, but it flew in the face of a lot of violence behavior today. before, i just wish i would have seen this yeserday, than what we've seen when their are called on, on their tactics today. >> well, this is about them getting free suff, as you know, neil. that's what it comes down to, free stuff.

compare that to conservative ideologists saying, you know, we want constitutional rights, smaller government. conservatives are not fighting for money in their own pocket or things they didn't earn nd don't need. that's what they are protesting, and the other thing you have to understand is rooting this violence, is that this is, don't forget, thee number one biggest special interest group in the country, bigger than any other one you can name they give 90% of union dues to the top 20% most liberal politicians in the country. this is the mecanism funding the obama machine and that administration and their cronies, and so that's why they are so angry about this. neil: i hate to add this, but when people agent up violencely, i think the media should cover it regardless because they would do the same if yu or your colleagues acted the same way, if for no other reason to ensure it doesn't happen again. normal, if you bring delight out of goonish behavior, the

goonish behavior stops so that is not too nice. >> don't you think, neil, that if this had been -- if there were one incident of violence with the tea party, aren't you surprised that one tea party has not gone crazy out of all the million of tea parties across the country? one incident, we would have heard about it, but they can't find it. they try to blame it on the tea party. neil: you forget you are clueless, racist, knee -- neanderthal. thank you very much. >> thank you, neil. neil: very interesting. the guy on the receiving ends of the punches, he's with us shortly. in the meantime, from when unions go nuts to when politicians just go nowhere, another day closer to the brink, my friends, and no sign yet, we're not headed for the cliff, and god knows i tried to bridge the gap yesterday in washington, but superhero or not, i'm just one guy. 's the problem. both sides are hurling insults

at one another with little time to waste. forgets about a deal done by the end of the year. as you saw yesterday, when i was in washington, realistically, they have to cobble together at least the framework of the deal by friday at the latest. he's why. it would take that long just to get it marked up, conferenced out, and ultimately voted on and signed by the president of the united states by year's end. winsconsin republican senator ron johnson to say so far, i guess, not so good, huh, senator? >> hi, neil, you have one side negotiating in good faith, putting proposals on the table to solve the problems, and the other side not negotiates in good faith, no proposals, the last two budgeted voted on three times, and its 0-610. that's the problem. you don't have equal partners working in good faith with this. you have republicans working in good faith and the president who is not. neil: i know you're a republican, and that's your point of view, and i understand

that, but it is fair to say that you're not without sin or your side's without sin. you have not specified how you are going to get the $800 billion in revenues so while it's on the table, revenues on the table and you are commended for that, it's not as if you're going to great detail. >> well, neil, first of all, neil, the house passed two budgets including proposals to actually save medicare, which is the largest problem in terms of driving down the debt and deficit, and that's the first partnership. the second point is we don't want to harm economic growth, and the other problem is president obama has been in office now for almost four years, and he's never concentrated on growing our economy which is the number one solution of the probm. what he's concentrated on is growing government. he has no intention, nor the democrats in the senate, to limit the rate of growth in government, and as a result, they have no plan for doing so, so, have been -- even though he campaigned on the reduction, the past increase is

only going to solve -- neil: you're right. i think you're right -- >> that's far more than talking points, neil. neil: senator, i know you passed and are consistent on it, but we're beyond that. i 1k you you feel -- i ask you, you feel strongly about this, and rand paul, marco rubio, echoed your concerns. i get a sense from many of the republican party revenues, themselves are not acceptable; is that right? >> no, revenues are, but the way revenues grow is the economy. a couple numbers. with the meager economic growth we have had since 2009, feder revenues ncreased by $344 billion. return to a normal economy like in 2007 when revenues 18% of the economy, that's another er $400 billion. combine that, $750 billion per year of additional revenue versus the president's proposal,

between 34 billion dollars, a tenth of what economic growth produces, and face it, by puppishing success and increasing taxes, you risk the economic growth. neil: if you had a deal, revenues in there, whether rate hikes, or, i don't know, the other idea of closing loopholes and exemptions, allowances for the well-to-do, either one you're against? >> listen, i'm for pro-growth tax reform. what we actually need to see is a real plan, a proposal that we know we're trying to compromise with, and we are not getting that from the president. that's required. we have to see, and this should be debated in public. this is asurdwhat's happening. again, there's a couple elected officials with their un-elected staffs, going behind closed doors, doing a back room deal, to save america in the span of a couple weeks? we need a resolution, the committee should be working on the stuff, debating serious issues -- neil: we're not going to meet the deadline, are we?

>> i understand that, and all we can do here because the presidenholds all the cards, he's the only man that can sign a bill from preventing tax increases so we may have to do a fallback position just trying to minimize the damage, but i don't want to be come police sit in raising american's taxes because that harms economic growth and takes us in the wrong direction. neil: senator, thank you very much. >> have a great day. neil: the shorthand is we're not close at all. meanwhile, santa coming to town to cut a deal without spending cuts? >> i'm here today to urge the house leaders to extend the tax cuts for 98% of families and avoid the terrible budget cuts. neil: when santa goes socialist. i wondered why he wore red. senator hatch here on why he says it's the democrats who are the grinches, and we're the ones getting screwed. then, the guy at the receiving end of the union guy's sucker punch is here.

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neil: well, governors want the cash, and they want it right now, but if sandy rescue relief funds are coming, they will come slowly, if at all with the obama administration requesting $60 billion in post-sandy aid, but republican lawmakers want to wait until they know where each dollar is going. now, before you say, oh, this sounds crue and wful, think of all the money we have wasted not tracking it. the money that went to haiti to help them out, and that it never really helpedded them out, and the money post-katrina that never helped anyone out in louisiana. that's why the republican idaho republicanments to do it right. it's not a crazy con --

concept, but you are taking heat for sounding heartless. how do you answer? >> it was devastating to families, businesses in the atlantic northeast, and the is emergency funding that needs to get done, done as quickly as we can do it, but there's a lot of requests in this $60 billion that the president requested, and thate have not vetted yet. we need to scrub to make sure it's targeted, it's doing the job we expect it to do, and some is more long term, and i suspect what you're going to see is an emergency package that addresses needs we know are there, and then, probably, later on, one the chance -- we had the chance to vet and see if it needs emergency funding or the appropriations process. neil: you know it better than i do, congressman, and i cmmend you. a lot of people jump ugly on you and you are the scrouge at christmas. we are just making sure you don't pour good money after bad, and our hearts are bigger than

our head. we give a lot of ourselves, our money, our resources, only to see it squandered away. what's wrong -- >> neil, if you look -- neil: the local agencies or groups on the scene who get the money out and the help out faster? >> well, that's one of the things we have to look at is how do we get the money out? is it targeted? is it doing the job we expect it to do? you know, after hurricane katrina, rushed in, put a lot of money into the relief area in the gulf coast, and looking back at it, there was a lot of it wasted. there was a lot that did good things, but a lot wasted. we don't want to repeat that effort. as you said, we are good-hearted, and we want to help the people in the northeast, and we're going to do what's necessary nd what's required of us, i think, to hlp those families that have been devastated. neil: you know, sums are so large, ongressman, like the $60

billion for the region, a lot of money, a lot of earmarks, i know that's a bad word for rebuilding the infraructure that could be more hurricane, storm resistant, high wind resistant, but who is checking to ensure they do that and not feeding someupon group's pockets or some politicians trying to curry favor in >> well, what's that the stf is doing and why we scrub this request very closely. there's actually people from the appropriations committee, staff and thexroarptions committee in the -- appropriations committee in the northeast right now looking at the request and what exactly it will do. a lot of things are more long term spending than short term. yes, they needrelief in the areas, but, you know, the american people are gracious and helpful to people when they are in need. whether it's wildfires, tornadoes, or hurricanes, we help our neighbors. we want to do that. families don't have places to live, devastated. we need the economy growing in

the area again, and get that back in working order. neil: conkman, thank you -- congressman, thank you very much. better a dollar late that arrives than money sent out and never does early or otherwise. we do want to cunt and make sure those who need the help get the help, and no a crafty shyster. first neil cavuto, and than cringe l following my lead to dc. i'm good, but what he did, well, you take a look. >> coal is a lot heavier than toys. i don't want to come back here in two weeks with a bag full of in two weeks with a bag full of coal to do theght i could ignor, and i wished it would just go away. [rock music playing] it was my adhd. and like many kids with adhd, i didn't outgrow it. one of the issues i had

was not being able to focus. i would read and i would reread the same sentence. you'd read it over and over and over again. and then, five minutes later, i wouldn't know what i just read. it wasn't sticking with me. it wasn't sinking in. and that, to me, was really frustrating. as i got older, i was still having that issue. and that's when i knew i needed to talk the doctor. announcer: if you were diagnosed with adhd as a kid, you might still have it. find out more. take a quiz at ownyouradhd.com to help recognize the symptoms, like inattention, impulsivity, hyperactivity, then talk with your doctor. i take responsibility for my adhd. it's your adhd. own it.

>> this is the busiest time of year for me, but thankfully, my staffer at north pole are concerned as i am about the fate of the children and families and what happens to them due to this childish squabble here in congress if it doesn't end. neil: you're not santa! [laughter] santa wouldn't do that. santa wouldn't put himself in the middle of the political debate and take sides with liberals who want spending. santa would be up at the north pole making toys. my gosh, what have we come to now where we use iconic symbols of goodness to wage a pr campaign for more spending? republican senator orrin hatch says get ready for more of this. senator, i know santa. santa's a friend of mine. that dude's not santa. >> good for you. this santa wants coal in the stockings of the small businesses of our country, and, you know, he believes in

spending without backing it up and paying for it. it's not the santa i know. neil: yeah, and, by the way, this santa reads a prompter. one thing a superhero, like myself, doesn't do -- scroll up a little bit. >> i know somebody else who reads a prompter. neil: senator, here's what i worry about. it looks like this part is accelerating the, you know, using props to make a point, blaming the other side to ip, you know, a process that seems frozen, where are we going with this? >> i actually believe the democrats are willing to take us over the cliff. i think that, look, i have a lot of confidence in speaker boehner -- neil: by the way, you're getting to be part of the minority now because we're more people peeling off from him, within the house. i'm wondering if his speakership could be in peril, what do you think? >> i don't think so. it's a tough job on his han,

and he has to rally the people. neil: you would support the raising of $800 billion in revenue? you'd be on board? >> i think we can raise revenue without raising tax rates, and at the same time, spur on small business, and without hammering him. the president is offering to have corporate tax rates, hardly any corporations of any sense have any attorneys pay the top 35% of the tax rate, but a lot of the past companies, partnerships, and some s-corporations, ect., small businesses, they have to pay through the nose and pay the 35% so this president's willing to get corporate tax deductions to the large corporations, and not willing to help those who are small. neil: senator, i may be over analyzing this stuff. i was in your fine city yesterday, and everyone sort of read things differently, but when i heard the administration float a trial balloon of we'll look at lowering corporate tax

rates or corporate tax reform, was that their way of trying to entice the hatches and others of your still skeptical minds to come support an agreement that would include all of the above in >> i don't think so. you know, i care less what the wealthy have, but there's a human number of small businesses hit by this. their marginal tax rate up 24%. 53% of the businesses will be hit very, very hard. most of them put moneys back into the business so they can hire people. they don't particularly take their moneys out, but, you know, if they are going to have to pay marginal tax rates 24% higher, they will not hire people. that's the problem. 70% of all jobs come through the small business sector, and i's as though the people in the white house have no knowledge about what made this country the greatest country in the world, and they don't seem to understand small business is the key here. i've got to say, when the large

corporate groups got together, ceos got together, and said, oh, we want the corporate tax rate reductions, the small business people got together, and said, well, forgetting us, and we're left holding the bag when we have to pay the highest rates there are, and you don't. you can find tax expenditures and ways around it. neil: we are not getting a deal at year end, are we? >> well, we have to get a deal. neil: i know that. i know we have to, but we're not. i'm saying we're not. >> right now, things are not close. the president wanted $1.6 trillion in new taxes, at the most, spending, if extrapolated out, the most spending reductions would be around $400 billion, if we're lucky, and one time, he was for two and a half time spendi reductions versus one time tax increases, and, of course, he's off of that. that's what he ran on. he ran on no more than $800 billion in increase, and boehner offered that to him.

neil: not happening, not happening, not happening. >> bad, isn't it? neil: thank you. >> merry christmas, and i hope you have a great set of holidays. neil: we will, and you'll be working through it. thank you, senator. >> you bet. neil: unions literally pushing back the right to work. how it became the right to fight. with this guy. [bleep] [inaudible conversations] [bleep] the boys use capital one venture miles for their annual football trip.

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neil: makes you laugh, and sometimes he makes you just want to beat him up, the guy in the middle of the scuffle, with the michigan union guys, of course, famous through that video, but maybe not for the way you really wanted, steven, how are you feeling now? >> listen, i'm under rested, overworked, under fed right now, and still tough enough to take one from the union thugs. another day aboveground. i can't complain. neil: i got two out of three with you, the underfed part not right. steven, how did it start? you know, a lot of people looking at this video that you shot, and that people shot, saying you instigated it. what happened? >> well, you know, those are the same people say she was wearing a short skirt and drinking alone deserving to be sexually assaulted. i asked questions. why are you against right to

work? why should you be prohibited from working at all? questions meant with violent answers, and the tent was torn down, the second tent tore down. they actively desroyed, tore down, and trampled on the tent with women and elderly people and hand cap people still in the tent. yeah, at that point, call me provok tore, but the men got out and protected the village, making sure the women are safe. neil: this guy flailing at you, what got his goat? what happened there? >> they were tearing down the tent. we came out and said stop tearing down the tempt. you see the tape, and as we pulled them off, there was a melee, people pushing and shoving, and he took that as license to hit me in the face five times unanswered. the face is not going to get worse, but felt it was justified. if people think it is, let me know. neil: i disagree, you're a handsome young man. steven, here's what i'm curious about.

yeah, others came back and said, you know, this is -- the acts of a few. i guess i'll ask you the obvious question. did any of those who were at the protest come to your aide or tell the one or two guys flailing on you to stop it or what? >> no, when there was the melee going on, not a one. it took 20 minutes to tear down the tent. it happened over a serious time line, neil, anthere was not a single cop to be found. as a matter of fact, i thought, okay, i have to give some report here, but i couldn't find a cop, and they circled me and followed me, threatening me back to the car, and, by the way, i have that on tape. media, please, please, please, as you ask for more footage, although the hours out there, if that's not enough, ask me for context. i have great stuff in reserve for you. neil: we had a tea partyer on earlier, steven who said if anyone of us, referring to tea parties, agented up like that, oh, my gosh, it would be all over the media.

>> yeah. neil: except fox, not a lot of dangs to this. >> no, and, as a matter of fact, the one place that covered was msnbc and huffingn post, and they questioned me and asked what happened in the fight. i said, did you see a fight there? i didn't see a fight, but i was hit in the face five time, and then he sucker punched me again. it's a first amendment issue. they think they are justified because you don't have a right to be there if you don't agree with the people. these people are the members of the unions that destroyed detroit. their state, their cities being swallowed, neil, and they don't care. it's give me, give me, give me, and employers, hostess, gm, say we can't afford these benefits or pay grades. we don't care about we want, we want, and you're fired, how dare you do that. neil: i would imagine if they are cooler and calmer heads in the crowd who know about pr and some union guys know quite a bit about pr, and they know that the

predisposition, a lot of folks who equate goonish behavior with extreme unions, then they would be on guard for anything that even hints at that. something busted loose here and shattered that. >> well, listen, if you look at the tape -- looks like a scene from "the dark knight rises," neil. you're a woman, in a tent, a white tarp tent, fitting 800 drinking hot chocolate, and walls cave in with people saying they are going to kill you. this is what happened. it was not an isolated incident, neil. this was happening on a massive scale. this was not an isolated incident. this was the incident. it was not cuple of people. you know how many people it takes to tear down a tent that size, neil? watch the video. he's the thing, too, if you watch the videos, you have literally hundreds of videos online from people with iphone cameras, ipad cameras, shooting it, and the unions covering it up because conservatives shine a light on it, make sure it's transparent, and unions operate in the dark

to destroy tents and assault people. neil: amazing. steven, thank you very much. i hope you are okay right now, or what? >> i'm a little -- i'm a little around, my wife was upset so i came home and got a worse beating from her. [laughter] neil: steven, thank you. good seeing you. feel better. steven crowder, talk about taking a punch. meanwhile, the ceos putting tax hikes on the table, losing an appetite for fellow ceos. look, if you have copd like me,

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bennigan's ceo, you don't like it, paul, why? >> i don't know what planet those ceos are from, but it can't be planet earth. neil: large company ceos. >> when you look at a fortune 500 ceo taking a look at, well, a little bit of tax increases won't hurt us -- neil: billions in revenue. >> are you not thinking about the entrepreneur, the small business owner, the small companies? that really is the driving machine for this country. neil: by the way, we were discussing in the break quickly, they can find ways around these higher taxes, but small businesses, not so much. options limited. >> it's alreadyfractious and thin in terms of operating margins, and it's like any good custodian of a brnd looks at the larger picture. we take a look at how are we able to, maybe squeeze in the operating costs and save money? on the revenue side, ihave a message for everybody. get people back to work. if you want to raise tax

revenue, get people back to work, get in contributing their fair share's tax, and on the other side, look at savings. the individuals tax rate has gone up 1% over 50 years in terms of a percentage of gdp. neil: the argument for doing this deal -- >> when the fed is up ten. neil: i understand. the president re-elected, this the premise of him being re-elected, hiking taxes on the wealthy, get over it, it's going to happen. it is what it is. if that's the case, what do republicans do? >> that's the question, isn't it? i mean, we're all looking at, you know, what avenues now do we have available in the practical wisdom, the common sense is that, you know, you still got a business to run. you still have people that you are responsible for, whether -- neil: how will change your business? when all is said and done, as great as your restaurants are, they are an impulse decision,

right? to go out to eat? do you fear in a higher tax environment for the well-to-do, that happens? fewer go out to eat? >> i think it's a very fragile economy, and it has been for years. neil: see more among the 98% than the 2%? >> we're more -- we're more than 98%. we want to make it available to everybody. again, we have a great position in the casual dining, and, in fact -- neil: my point is you have been thriving throughout all of this. >> absolutely. neil: one could argue you are good, people hungry, eat when depressed, or what is it you fear doesn't land? >> well, i think it's the opposite i'm looking at. i think in this case hope is a strategy. you know? i think not hope being it's a sunny day tomorrow and everything's rosy, but hope in the sense of john mccain

hoping he gets through his vails and the prison of war camp, and, you know, being able to deal effectively with adversity. not having defeatist attitude and rising above what's going to happen no matter what. >> what do you think of the corporate lemmings following, okay, hike taxes, we're okay with it. it's like a switch or light went on or off after the election where they are all just full, full, full, go for it. >> well, i dope subscribe to that. that dog doesn't hunt in our world, and i think romney, his platform -- neil: why are they doing it? why do you think they are doing it? to get along with him? >> that get along to go along, reach some kind of compromise, but, again, it's benefiting a small cross section of business versus the majority of the entrepreneurs and franchises like our instrument and go out there and no matter what the economic situation out there, fighting, fighting the good fight.

neil: finally, let's say taxes do go up, everyone is worrd that we see a downdraft. the administration points to the clinton years when they raise taxes, and we were off to the races, just the opposite of what maybe folks of your era thought back then. could the same not happen now? >> i think it's a real possibility. you know, again, when -- neil: real possibility we repeat that or don't repeat that? >> no, there's a great opportunity to repeat that. what we need to do, again, is we have to run our business. no matter who is in offfce, regardless democrat or republican, we have to do what's smart, what's practical for businesses, ensure we work with the franchises, vendors, and deliver to our customer the great food we've been known for for 36 years. neil: it is good food. i like that. you don't eat it, i know that. >> i share it. neil: thank you very much. when we come back, what's the difference between the avon lady

and this lady? well, one's crazy before she rings the bell, and the other, well, is just ringing our bell. ♪

neil: avon calling or is a an avon firing? they are slashing 1500 jobs at the same time, the federal government, well, is adding jobs, a lot of them. since the beginning of this administration, try 95 jobs per day. fox business' rothman and katrina on a government that

gets bigger as corporate america gets smaller. it's amazing. >> frustrating when you hearthe federal government adds job at the rate you described, 95 per day, when the private sector is adding very few jobs, not nearly enough to return the economy back to full ploipt, and, avon, the latest company, as you reporting here, to talk about having to do layoffs because they deal with a slowing, not just domestic economy here, but a global economy under the strife. it is troubling. banks laying off workers. we know that bonuses on wall street will be the lowest in years. again, you got the federal government that's just adding jobs and not showing any kind of, if you look at it in this perspective, any kind of empathy, rather, for the private sector. you have to wonder. there's some reports out of rasmussen, the survey, the private sector, the majority of americans from all political parties actually do believe tha the federal workers have it much better in terms of how much

money they earn and average job security than average private sector workers. neil: katrina, what do you think of that? >> as a private worker, my costs go up 15%-20% a year with payroll taxes and health care premiums. it's more difficult for me to hire employees because of the cost sorted with doing so, and i would argue that in some sectors, not mine, but in some sectors, you know, businesses are, in essence, competing with the government because the government is providing pension plans and better health care incentives. there's something to be aid about non-political economics. there's no such thick as a free lunch. somebody pays for the government workers, and as a small business owner, i quite frankly feel like i'm suffering because costs go up, but, also, as a taxpayer, paying for the government jobs. >> right, right, taxpayers. here's what's frustrating, neil, another point. to me, doing research here, the irs has 36 obama white house

aids, owe 833 # -- $83 #3,000 in back taxes. they still have jobs. neil: legitimate taxes there, but i am curious bout this. raised a good point as did katrina on -- when i got out of school, if you went into government, it was like the peace corp., a good service thing to do, didn't expect to get rich, but it was like a righteousness to it. now, katrina's right. there's money to be made going into government, and security to be found in government. >> average federal workers earn $32,000 more than the average private sector worker, and i think there's just resentment towards federal workers because they are protected, because the administration is adding them. we see it every month. neil: in other words, you're here to serve us, not us you. what do you think of that,

katrina? >> well, i also think a lot of small businesses, and business in general, a lot of times, get, you know, a bad wrap in the press, and as an entrepreneur, i started the business from scratch. i worked at the library in college to pay for my education, making $6 an hour. there's something to be said for hard work, and businesses ke the economy going. it's ultimately the american dream so i think we need to go back to and some argue against me, but we have to go back to running our country like a business, and there is benefits in small businesses. we create jobs. we're also providing opportunities fopeople coming out of college. you know, there's so many kids e-mailing me asking for an opportunity, and a lot of times it's tough because i know the cost associated with hiring those kids out of college. neil: you -- >> there needs to be more incentives. neil: get worse, though, because the environment, and health care getting bigger, and, of course, the move in congress not to tackle entitlements, when i was there yesterday, leave

entitlements alone, leading me to believe government's oing to get bigger. >> that's what majority of americans want; right? re-election of presidentobama, bigger government is better, give me free stuff. neil: i know if they wanted that, but just both sides get something done. i think the left is overreading it as a stamp of approval for just government largeness. you and i might disagree. i hope i'm right, fear you might be, but i think the message of the election we prefer the president over mitt romney. we don't necessarily prefer the democratic approach of the republicans. >> talking strategy, and this is a news item of a couple days ago, but bob corker raised eye bros; right? republicans saying, just raise the tax rate on the wealthy to move on to entitlements. that triggered it, nobody wants to touch them, but i feel we're in the midst of the political wheeling and dealing, and the media is just the pawns. neil: what happens to you,

katrina? say there's no deal by the end of the year. for your business, does it change anything? you go off the cliff. do you go off the cliff? >> elected well, of course, it s all of us, especially small business owners. small business owners made the country great in the past, and so i want them to come to a resolution. i think if the ego removed from the negotiations, a lot more would be achieved. it's like running a business and negotiates anything to begin with. you have to first of all know yourself as an individual, and remove your ego from it. there's battling and war going on, and there needs to be a balance, democrat or republican, there needs to be a balance, and i just feel like a lot of incentives for business in the united states and what, again, we all, you know, call the american dream are being lost. neil: yeah, all right. santa ads -- >> and that upbeat note -- neil: thank you very much. meanwhile, the world is waiting to see if the world is going to end.

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